Steal These Online Lead Generation Tactics from Multifamily Rob

Aviva (00:00)
This week's listener of the week is Melanie 3. Melanie, thank you so much for leaving us a five star review. And for those of you listening, if you leave us a five star review below, you might be next week's listener of the week, week, week. Today on the show, I'm very excited. We have not just.

A broker. We have the broker. Multifamily Rob in the house. Hey Rob, how you doing?

Robert (00:29)
But it's so, it's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Aviva (00:33)
You know, we had Ken Ashley on the show two weeks ago and

Robert (00:38)
Nice.

Aviva (00:41)
During the show, I explained I never quite connected to the brokers in my local community because they never saw eye to eye with me on how to navigate the business. And I was, you know, when I jumped on the internet, I met a slew of like -minded brokers and you were one of them. And I'm just really excited to have you on the show because you are.

crushing it and I would love for you to introduce yourself, tell the viewers who you are, what you do, and how you got there.

Robert (01:17)
Okay, absolutely. 28 years old, I started commercial real estate when I was 20. I was a sophomore in college. I think I was working in Walmart distribution center, like doing nothing. I started, I'll backtrack a second. My family is in liquor store and we had a liquor store our whole life. And there was always like, you know, immigrant lifestyle, you're going to take over the business and keep going.

And then we grew from our main store, went to a second store and we did an open style like Manhattan style open and it was still in the Bronx. And we got robbed at gunpoint, my dad and I, and he got extremely scared and was like, I'm selling everything and moving to Florida with his new daughter, daughters remarried. So then there goes my dreams of taking over the business. So thankfully, CRE fell on my lap.

Cause my buddy was like, dude, this guy wants someone who's new and doesn't know anything. And I, my first response was, I don't know how to talk to people. Like, how could I do that? Uh, but he pushed me to do it. And then it just went on from there. I was an everything broker for very long in my small town, which is kind of what you had to do. And then I got on social, started meeting people from all over the world. And, uh, now 2019, 2020.

went from everything to multifamily and large multifamily.

Aviva (02:45)
family.

Robert (02:46)
I own some apartments, so I am drawn to it and I would like to own larger apartments. So commercial real estate is like a paid internship. You know, because I'm learning from these great operators and hopefully I could do it myself one day as well.

Aviva (03:04)
That's a funny way to put it. Commercial estate's like a paid internship. I always felt that brokerage is a really good way to, it's like exactly what you're saying. Get the education in how to be a landlord without sitting in a classroom being paid to do it. Or excuse me, paying to learn how to do it. You're being paid to. And so.

Robert (03:17)
Yeah.

100%.

Aviva (03:28)
Can I just, I'm just going straight into it. How the hell do you market multifamily properties with multiple units where the pricing is constantly changing?

Robert (03:31)
Let's get it.

How do I, what do you mean? Like for sale?

Aviva (03:43)
Yeah, I've always wondered that just because, you know, in industrial we do longer term leases and it's pretty like totally cut and dry, but say you've got a 30 unit complex and you're trying to market a cap rate. How do you market it with constant, you know, somebody moves out, somebody moves in, somebody doesn't pay. How do you market it with the revolving numbers?

Robert (03:51)
Hmm.

Okay. Yep, yep, yep.

Yeah, that's a great question. There's so many different forms and like things that they track. So a lot of the forms that my buyers will request would be the loss report for the last 12 months to see what the delinquencies are currently and what they've been for the past 12 months. It's very based on the rent roll, today's current rent roll. And then from there, you'll see what is market rent or what's below market and what's the Delta. So, you know.

Two years ago, you could underwrite that delta from having below market rents to current market because you know you could achieve that. But those days are gone. So it's more what's in place is what you're getting. I don't want to hear about potential.

Aviva (04:52)
I refuse to put proformas on our brochures because I just, I can't help but just roll my eyes when I see, yeah, you should get chewed out, but I digress.

Robert (04:55)
Yeah

You get chewed out.

Yeah.

Aviva (05:05)
So you hopped online a few years

Robert (05:08)
That's so funny.

Aviva (05:09)
But can you tell me about your journey online as a broker?

Robert (05:10)
Okay, fantastic.

My journey online as a broker. I don't know how it started. I'm young, so I was already on there. And it was probably with Gary Vee, Gary Vee, Grant Cardone, just listening to those guys all day long. They just kind of forced me to get on there. And then you start making some deals. I remember I posted a terrible video just underwriting a deal on my iPhone.

And a lender was like, hey, I have a buyer for that. And that was like a million dollar deal. So and that client is still mine today. We own a deal together. So social was just like going for it. And it's been great. It's incredible.

Aviva (05:46)
Wow.

When did you start online talking about multifamily?

Robert (05:57)
it had to be. That video that I just mentioned was probably 2017. That was on LinkedIn.

Aviva (06:04)
whole because I when I got online started to talk about commercial real estate in 2020 you were a mainstay. You were with Eddie and Kyle. You were among the first.

Robert (06:14)
I

Yeah, yeah. We were out there for sure.

Aviva (06:21)
How have you seen it change since 2017?

Robert (06:25)
more people are adopting it. Like you got the Bob Knakal's of the world coming in, the veterans, and that is awesome because we need it. Because there's just a bunch of young guys like me out there that think we know what we're talking about, you know, so it's good to get the big guys.

Aviva (06:39)
So last week on the podcast, I had David Murphy, who I met at CREI. He's this badass industrial guy who works for CBRE. He would be like, you know, he's 25 years in the business. He is my nightmare of competition if he were here in Denver, right? Like he is...

Robert (06:46)
Cool.

Yeah.

Aviva (07:04)
eating my deals and I told him I'm like I wake up every morning and I'm so glad nobody in my market sees what you and I see because man it's a lot easier for me to take your market you take the market share so Dave can have Orlando Industrial and I invite the competition but nobody you know nobody in yeah so

Robert (07:06)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

You got it on.

Aviva (07:33)
Rob, I'm gonna be honest. I selfishly brought you on this podcast because you are unbelievable at online lead generation. And I would love to hear your online lead gen... Can you just tell me A to Z, what you do, how you do it and what it looks like?

Robert (07:44)
Yes, that is my favorite thing to do.

Yes, this started even before I really took on the role of the large off market broker. Like I was always doing deals off market and it really blows down to hitting it in every way possible. Like I drove by a deal last year and I was like, wow, that has it's a gateway motel. I was like, that kind of looks like apartments or it could be apartments. So I just went on Facebook and I typed in gateway motel and I sent him a DM.

He's like, yeah, I'm in India, but I'd be happy to sell. So it's just, you know, you just have to use all your methods. LinkedIn DM is amazing for me. I subscribe to LinkedIn premium, which is like 60 bucks a month, but you could then DM anybody. And that is a nice tool. I just use all the platforms, text message. I hire people as well to be out there. You know, the VA is cold calling, texting.

You have to do everything.

Aviva (08:50)
So are you doing any cold calling or is it mostly your VA's now?

Robert (08:54)
Yeah, I do it every day. Because I'm dealing, you know, these deals are big. So if someone is, they're not, they sniff it out right away. You know, like I have to be on the call if someone answers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm big on email too. You know, David Cohen is my guy and he taught me on email. So, co -star, email, I'm a...

Aviva (09:07)
Sure, Bob Knakal will be proud. Cold call every day.

Robert (09:20)
do it at all.

Aviva (09:21)
Is that where you get a lot of your data from? Co -star?

Robert (09:24)
Yeah, yeah, that's my bread and butter, 100%.

Aviva (09:25)
Yeah?

Otherwise, you know, look, I spend a lot of time on CoStar. She's a saint and a sinner. But I have always felt like that it's, if the contact information is on CoStar, like these poor people must be getting phone calls by, you know.

Robert (09:35)
Yes. To say the least.

Aviva (09:53)
People like, young people like you and I just ruthlessly, I have found a lot of my inbound are the people who don't have their contact information on CoStar. They are the best. And, you know, good for them for keeping their contact away from the star. But.

Robert (09:55)
Yes.

Mmm, those are the best.

Yeah, how do you do that? I reach out to people and they're like, how'd you get my personal email? I don't know, it was just on CoStar. Yeah.

Aviva (10:19)
You're like, it's literally my job to figure out who you are. So what kind of deals are you working on today?

Robert (10:28)
Right before we got online, I was underwriting a 122 unit deal to send to my buyers. So that was 1970 build multifamily garden style. I have an offer out on a hundred unit new construction deal in Pittsburgh. Got an 86, all multifamily deals, all hundred plus units.

That's what I've been doing for the past couple of years, but the past, I would say a couple of months, my mentor was like, you need to widen your search. So I'm hitting all the other states. You know, I just had someone hit me up saying I'd consider selling my 800 unit portfolio from a different state. So that's what I'm working on. Large multifamily deals. That's all I want to do. It's all that excites me.

Aviva (11:21)
I was at lunch with a broker, a multifamily broker recently, and he said 2023 was a bloodbath. He is not an internet -facing broker. I'm curious if you had the same experience or what your 2023 looked like.

Robert (11:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

100 % 100 %

Yeah, my 23 was the worst brokerage year I've ever had in my life. And it could possibly be that I was just into headlines too much, like just, you know, soaking into the sorrows and I just wasn't going for it. Because as you look back, tons of deals traded. But yeah, transactions were down 70 percent. Like we got crushed. It was nice for me to realize that my personal portfolio was able to like you could really.

I was able to tell that it sustained me even though I could go a long time without commission. So that was great. 23 was rough, but I think people are seeing that the Fed is not going to continue to raise rates. At least that's what we hope. And they're just tired of sitting on the sidelines. So I think we are in a nice opportunity now. People are very active. I think this quarter, next quarter interest rates came down a little bit. Sellers still think that, you know,

Things are haywire, so their pricing is coming down a little bit. I think it's a really good time to make hay.

Aviva (12:42)
Last year, my bread, my butter, and everything in between was in leasing. You know, we got a couple deals through the finish line, but, and that's one thing with multifamily where I'm like, damn, I empathize with you guys because you can get, you can get a six figure leasing commission under your belt. And you know, it's gonna be a good year.

Robert (13:04)
Yeah.

That is a great point, man. Retail, office, everybody could just lease out their year if it's a bad sales year, but we're not leasing apartments. So that's.

Aviva (13:18)
That's for your own good. At least your apartment that you own if you want, but. That's cool. So let me ask you, what cap rate are you seeing owners biting on right now now?

Robert (13:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Depends on the market. Depends on the asset class, new construction, you know, top tier market or lower, but in a decent market, a new construction deal, easily in the fives, mid fives. I think they all want to see a six cap. How are they still trading in the mid fives? Is that six is hard, but that's coming from fours, you know? So it's made, it's made a decent way up, but anything out of six cap, nice market, good.

Asset will trade today for sure. That'd be all over it

Aviva (14:04)
I am always looking at all asset types and I always see multifamily just trades. It's like you said, right now in the fives and the sixes, I can't get a deal out the door that's industrial if it's not six or seven right now. Why do you think it is that people will tolerate that lower cap rate in the multifamily space?

Robert (14:18)
Yeah.

Because it's I guess the space I'm dealing with is larger. So it's 100, 200 unit deals and you're dealing with the institutional buyer versus if I was dealing with a 20 unit deal, say market is going for an A cap today, you know, because they don't get that good of rates. They can't accept as low of a return.

Aviva (14:45)
Okay.

Robert (14:53)
larger deal, you know, so I think if you had more square footage and attract the institutional buyer, you definitely get those cap rates down there in your market. Absolutely.

Aviva (15:03)
Okay, that makes sense. When did you realize, this is a silly question, but I think it's really important for people to have this conversation with themselves. When was your aha moment that you should only be doing larger transactions as opposed to smaller transactions?

Robert (15:05)
Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know. I don't know when the exact moment was, but it just, you know, it's like a domino effect. You realize one thing, then the other thing, and you realize that the smaller deals take up more time. It's more hand holding. You're doing so much more. There's more on you with the smaller deals versus the larger deals. So it's in a sense less work. Maybe I shouldn't say it's less work, but.

less hand holding for sure, which is nice. And I think I, I think I just got tired of the little stuff, you know? I probably wouldn't have stayed in the brokerage business if I kept doing these half a million dollar deals and duplexes and stuff. The larger stuff is just more exciting. I don't know, just me.

Aviva (16:08)
There's a time in a broker's life when they realize they shouldn't do every deal that hits their desk, right? We start and we just wanna do every single deal because we wanna get the experience. But man, it was a beautiful day when you realize that...

Not every deal is for you. And it's like you said, the bigger you go on a transaction, generally the easier it is because these are people who are transacting often, they have the infrastructure in place to transact, and you don't have to explain every single step of the way. It's more of like a handoff as opposed to a handhold.

Robert (16:50)
Yeah, exactly. Yes, for sure. You posted something recently, how many tenants read the lease? Like that's what's happening in the small space, but in the larger space, you're just handing it over and they're not, the buyer's not even reading it. They're giving it to their attorney. So even if something goes wrong, it's not on you or the little space it is.

Aviva (17:11)
Read your leases, people. Read your paperwork. Read your contracts. I don't think we're ever gonna stop saying that, but damn.

Robert (17:14)
Yeah, one Yeah, one more thing about the larger space They trade it's more of a Predictable trade these institutions are these funds they have three to five year holds. So I know if they've held it for three years What's your price? You know how much I know the funds coming up?

Whereas if mom and pop sell, they're happy to hold for 20, 30 years and it's just crap shoot when they're going to sell.

Aviva (17:49)
How do you get a hold of the institutional decision makers?

Robert (17:53)
Email is when you go to the bigger guys, email is definitely the way.

Aviva (17:58)
Wow.

Robert (17:58)
Definitely it's all on email when you go to the smaller guys, you know, I say the older folks ready to retire are with the smaller deals send them a handwritten letter the Middle -aged I think you could I don't know call them text them but the bigger guys Bigger deal is definitely email first You

Aviva (18:20)
started in this business and my dad literally threw a white pages book at me and was like, start calling. And it's so crazy how far we've come from that notion of, look, I love talking on the phone. I love picking up the phone. I love hearing owners stories and you know, but I don't like, I hate cold calls. I couldn't hang up on you faster.

Robert (18:38)
Of course.

Aviva (18:48)
specifically during business hours. Like if you call me during business hours and it's a sale, it's over. And so I try to like obsess over how somebody else's sales pitch makes me feel and then modify my pitch. And that's why we have a podcast. So, yeah. So, uh.

Robert (18:48)
You

Oh.

That's perfect.

Aviva (19:13)
You know, it's just fascinating how fast this industry is changing and how lead generation, whether you're a broker, whether you're a landlord, there's so much opportunity. It's very, very exciting because it's like you said, the way you're getting a hold of institutional buyers is, or sellers is on email. Like,

Robert (19:31)
Yeah.

Online. Yeah. Right.

Aviva (19:40)
The way you could scale that is unfathomable. So, Rob, you said you're 27 years old.

Robert (19:45)
It's crazy.

Yeah, 28. Oh, I'm maybe 29. Yeah, I'm 29. I'm 29.

Aviva (19:53)
You are literally a puppy. A puppy. I'm 31 and I'm a puppy. But you are like, do you see a lot of brokers your age in the trenches with you or what do you see in your market?

Robert (20:00)
Yeah, you're not much further. We're both young.

I'm definitely the youngest one in my market by far and I could throw a pretty big radius around that. There's no one young in the industry. It's crazy. We need more of us.

Aviva (20:19)
Yeah

Yeah, I know, but a lot of us don't like waking up and getting kicked in the face for breakfast, which is what you have to do as a broker every morning.

Robert (20:32)
Yeah.

Aviva (20:32)
So being that you're 27, you have leveled up to multifamily on a large scale. What is your long -term, what's your goal in this industry?

Robert (20:43)
Yeah, I want to continue the large multifamily space and then eventually start buying my own deals. I don't like the idea of syndicating and raising money because I, you know, if I wanted to have a boss or someone calling on me, it'd probably just stick to brokerage. But hopefully I make my million dollar commissions with my large deals and I just throw them into massive more apartment deals.

Aviva (21:10)
Hey, everybody's got a different tolerance and I respect that.

Robert (21:15)
Yeah, I want to be an owner. You know, your dad's pod was very inspiring. No offense to the other guests, but that was the best. I love the ownership side and that's where I want to be.

Aviva (21:27)
He sure makes it look good, because man, is that guy on the beach all the time. And it's pretty cute. Yeah, hey, that was always the strategy. Broker, learn as much as you can about it, and start to buy as soon as you can. I'm just gonna tell you a random story, and then I'm gonna ask you the final question that I ask on every show.

Robert (21:29)
Yeah.

Hahaha!

Yeah.

Please.

Aviva (21:51)
The other day, two weeks ago, we go under contract on a three, three property, three properties on five acres. The next week, one of the buildings burns down to the ground. I called my dad like, oh my God, what are we doing? He's like, in my 45 years, I've never heard of or never had that happen to me. So.

Robert (22:02)
Bye.

Aviva (22:15)
We're all still learning whether you're 27 or 28 or my old man who's on the beach right now in St. Somewhere. So that's the cool thing about this industry. And always carry insurance.

Robert (22:16)
Hahaha.

Oh, amazing.

So what happened? Are you still under contract or it fell apart?

Aviva (22:33)
We're still under contract.

There will be story times. We're just a little busy in the trenches figuring it out. So, stand by for what happens there.

Robert (22:42)
Yeah.

Wow, super fun.

Aviva (22:48)
Crazy. You're like awesome. Love that for you. Yeah, never good when your property's on the news. So my last question is what is currently making you happy in commercial real estate?

Robert (23:01)
What is making me happy in commercial real estate would be the my route, my push into the larger space, like 200 plus unit space and outside of Pennsylvania. I'm excited to see more cities, more markets. My buyers are there, so I'm excited to, uh, and get busy again. You know, last year transactions were super down, so I think it's time to get busy. I'm excited for the harder times because I used to talk a lot of smack. I can't wait for.

you know, hard times, recession. So here we are. So I'm looking forward to it, you know, see what happens, see who drops out. It's going to be interesting cycle next couple of years.

Aviva (23:42)
I love being side by side with you on this journey online. Where can the listeners find you and follow you on the interwebs?

Robert (23:53)
Yep, most active on Twitter, Instagram, not really active on LinkedIn, but you can catch me there as well. Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram.

Aviva (23:59)
And your username is Multifamily Rob.

Robert (24:03)
Most likely multi -family rob anywhere you go.

Aviva (24:06)
And if you got to over 200 units, you give Rob a call. He's going to get you deal done. Rob, thank you so much for being on the show and for everybody listening. We'll see you next week.

Robert (24:10)
That's right. I'll bring you an offer pretty quickly.